Woofer ID

[bowtie427ss]

These don't appear to be "correct" 411-8A's, smooth cones and what appears to me to be smaller than 4 inch coils.

Was there a predecessor to the 411?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ALTEC-LANSING-SA...QQcmdZViewItem

[Old Guy]

I claim not to be an expert on the 411.

But If I could present People's exhibit one.

http://www.lansingheritage.org/image...iago/page2.jpg

And then I would like the jury to note the sloppy glue around the dust cap...

There may well have been smooth cone 411's, I do not know. But I see reason to think recone here.

[Old Guy]

Bfish strikes again.

Yeah I thought that was a painted dome, so he has to be right.

[bowtie427ss]

The memory isn't all it used to be, but it seems i recall some discussion here a while back regarding some alleged 411's on that auction site. If memory serves they had smooth cones and shiny metal dustcaps which raised a lot of doubt as to their "correctness", i really don't recall what the frames and motors looked like but i now wonder if those may have been 413's.

The Santiagos in the link raised my curiosity right off the bat when i saw the woofer mounted to the rear of the baffle, which while striking me as kinda odd, looks original from the pics. Further, the dustcap kinda looked like that of a newer 921, but i had no idea they used a painted metal cap on anything back in the heydays.

You guys are as always, an impressive wealth of info.

Just out of curiosity, anybody ever see a data sheet for a 413 woofer?

[bfish]

I've never seen any lit mention of 413s besides the '75 ref and in the Dynamic Force promo, though I expect it existed. After brief appearances in the "A" versions of Grenadas, Santiagos, and 9848s, it appears to have been dropped pretty quickly, with 411s filling their holes in later models. 413s don't appear to have been around long enough to get factory foam, which 411s quickly switched to.

Since both came in the same cab models, I've long suspected that 411s have sometimes been given a bad rap when it was actually a 413 under review. One particular "an Altec engineer told me" secondhand review that's often referenced on another site comes to mind. Tha's cool though, more 411s for the rest of us.

The 413 alum domes are really heavy, around 1/8" thick, same as used on certain OEM 417s. When unpainted, they can be ID'd in pics by their dull finish, you'll never see your reflection in one of them. They also don't have the rolled lip for a snug fit on the coil former, instead depending entirely on the glue to hold them in place.

[bowtie427ss]

The 413 alum domes are really heavy, around 1/8" thick, same as used on certain OEM 417s.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Interesting, so not just a typical aluminum dustcap then.............. intentionally added mass perhaps?

[bfish]

Definitely. I assume the same goal was in mind when they were used in 417s in 2-way wedge monitors (my 1231s have them). No need for extended HF in a 2-way from a light dome, rather, use the heavy one, added mass improves the deficient LF.

The light domes also served another purpose, when used in conjunction with alum coil formers, they dissipate a lot of heat.

Added;
The use of heavy domes in (some) OEM 417s illustrates the fact that OEM models aren't necessarily the equivalent of their retail counterparts, and in some cases, can actually be quite different. When such variations are occasionally discovered, they're often interpreted as mistakes, when in reality it's proof they knew exactly what they were doing.

<font color="#FFFFFF" size="1">[ May 20, 2008 06:58 PM: Message edited by: bfish ]</font>

[bfish]

The Bs had 411s, but the As started with 413s, which those appear to be. The 'other' Dynamic Force model, 413s had the same treated linen half roll srround, but a 3" coil (also overhung), and a very heavy painted aluminum dust dome for added mass. Looks like someone tried to dress up the linen surrounds, which are probably shot. No biggie, they take the same foam as 411s. The sloppy ring around the dome might be a hint at other problems though.

I've got a single 413 that I refoamed and slapped in a sealed older Crate bass amp. Really like it there. Never tried it for hifi.

[bowtie427ss]

Early makes sense now as i look again, i don't think i've seen those labels before.

For whatever reason, it seems i've encountered more 411 equipped big Altecs in this area over the years than any other model.

Back when i was younger and wanted to believe i knew practically everything, i thought Barcelonas were some kind of joint effort between Altec and JBL. The cabinets are very very well built and that woofer looked awfully close to a 2235. 'Course i believed in Santa and the tooth***** at one point too.

OMG, the evil sensor doesn't want you to say f_a_i_r_y.